On July 30th, 2019 we had a cool and interesting conversation with Arturo Tedeschi.

Arturo Tedeschi is an architect, independent researcher and computational designer, since 2004 complemented professional practice in Italy with a personal research on parametric design, focusing on relationships between architecture and new design tools. In 2010 he published “Architettura Parametrica”, a bestseller book on parametric design, translated into english as “Parametric Architecture with Grasshopper” in 2011. In the same year he worked at Zaha Hadid Architects in London. In 2011 he founded A > T a cloud based office which provides computational design services and training for architects, designers and companies.

He’s currently director and teacher of a series of workshops on parametric design and he has been an invited lecturer at universities and conferences worldwide. From 2012 to 2014 he is co-director of the AA Rome Visiting School for the Architectural Association School (London). His projects have been exhibited in Rome (MACRO museum), Milan, London, Paris (Carrousel du Louvre, Centre Pompidou), Cologne and Venice (Off event at Biennale 2014). In 2014 he published AAD_Algorithms-Aided Design the worldwide reference book on algorithmic modeling, based on the Grasshopper platform. In 2019 he has been appointed Italian Ambassador for Design at IDD19 by Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

In this episode, we talk about his random encounter with a parametric sculpture at a museum and how it changed his whole life. We talk about what architects he has always admired and where to start learning parametric design. We go deep into the topic of computational design as a new way to assist the designer in a project and how he sees the future of architecture changing due to all this. He gives some insights into what his design process is and how he goes through idea, concept, to final product and what are the obstacles he has faced through the fabrication method. He talks about his beliefs about how architecture is not merely building or real estate, but that to him, architecture is about solving complexities in our everyday objects and making our quality of life better. Finally, he gives advice to all architecture students and designers out there, talking about how competition can destroy our lives and how to take advantage of social media.

Questions:

Do you think there is a need for computational design?
2. What is the future of digitization in Architecture? What are the leading technologies?
3. Does computation assist or replace the architect in the design?
4. What are the steps to master coding and grasshopper?
6. What design philosophy do you believe in?
7. What architects do you admire?
8. Where to start learning parametric design
9. Do you see grasshopper as a digital tool that will remain relevant in the far future? (20+ years)
10. How to become a pro at computational design
11. What are some obstacles you face when trying to fabricate on an architectural scale?
12. How did you get into computational design?
13. What is something you wish you knew as a student when you were studying architecture?

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Interview Transcript:

M: Hi Arturo! How are you?

A: Hi Maria, nice to talk to you. I’m fine thank you.

M: It’s so nice to finally meet you. I’ve heard amazing things about you. From Instagram… Everywhere really.

A: Likewise!

M: So tell me a little about yourself. You’re an architect… Right now you’re in Milan.

A: Yeah exactly. I'm an architect and also a designer because I work in different fields. From architecture to product design. But yes, my work is basically connected with computational design and digital tools for architecture and design in general.

M: How did you get into that field? Into parametric design?

A: Well actually, it was very accidental. I was working as a let’s say a “normal architect” I was working as an interior designer actually… And I have this kind of Stendhal syndrome. You know what I’m talking about? When you experience a piece of art, and your life changes. Actually, I was in London and I stumbled upon this parametric sculpture designed at the AA School. And it was more or less 10 years ago and it changed my life. When I came back to Italy, I started studying digital tools and that’s all… But it was absolutely totally accidental.

M: Wow, so before you were an interior designer. Do you think that it has helped you in any way in parametric design?

A: Absolutely. Because I think that sometimes people ask me “what do I need to understand or know the topics in order to master parametric design?” And I think that along with knowledge of course, of digital tools, geometrics, and mathematics… You also need practical experience in your field. So if you are a product designer you need to know how to manufacture all the industrial issues and limitations that you have. In Architecture we have a main challenge which is gravity. Every time you want to create something, which is a building or a bridge, something like that… It is very complicated to manage gravity and put the pieces together.

So you need practical experience. That’s why I think that interior design helped me a lot in understanding how to create something that looks perfect. Like for example, when you work in interior design scale you need to create objects that look better than renderings. And so basically, to me that means achieving a kind of perfection in the final output that to me is very important.

M: And I think also that the interior design part brings a touch of the human scale into your design. And maybe perhaps if you had not gone into interior architecture, you would be missing the human scale or how people feel in the space. So that’s also very interesting.

A: Yeah, that’s true. Another side effect is that in general, you can complete an interior design project in a relatively small time. So you switch from ideas to reality a few times. And this is very interesting because you finally understand your idea. You see your idea coming into reality and you can also balance the next designs. Generally in architecture you spend years from idea to fabrication. And there are so many influences that change the design. So it’s a way to also understand how to balance the work and improve the design because you can finally see the output in a few weeks.

M: Yeah, that’s so true… So you basically saw the structure and you loved it and you say to yourself “I want to create something like this.”

A: Yeah exactly, I wanted to do exactly the same. I wanted to understand how to create something like that. Because at that time my fault was that I could not do it because of traditional tools. With CAD software, nor geometric skills I could not do it. So that triggered my curiosity and a love for complexity in a way. So basically, I started to study again, by myself.

M: How.. Wait, by yourself? So you basically learned all the digital software by yourself? Because there’s a lot of people that sent in questions asking… “How did he learn all those digital programs?” How did you do it?

A: Yeah… I like to say that I was like Bruce Wayne in the morning and Batman at night. I was working as an interior designer at the morning and studying at night. What I studied was not only software. I think that of course, you need some basic 3D modeling if you want to master computational design but you also need matherical… You need to understand how to mathematically represent geometric for example. So you need to understand differential geometrics, mathematics, but logic also with knowledge in 3D modeling. And then you put everything together and a matherical structure of objects.

When you can master this you can also think computationally and mathematically. When students ask me where to start… I always say that you need a bid curiosity for mathematical representation of reality. And I think this is the most important thing. Along with the study of digital modeling tools, grasshopper or similar computational design platforms… Coding… Tools without strong knowledge of geometries and mathematics is totally useless.

M: Hmm… And that’s probably why… Now that I think about… Zaha Hadid was so successful in her career, because she studied mathematics in school too.

A: Yeah yeah of course, she was one of my design heroes. My passion didn’t start with the admiration of Zaha Hadid actually, but… She really changed my vision over the years after my Stendhal syndrome I was mentioning before. I started loving Zaha Hadid, the designs, her approach and her vision. But she was not my only inspiration. I love the work of Ross Lovegrove which is really innovative. I really love his work and how he translates natural shapes into design, not in a trivial and cosmetic way, but a very deep way.

I also like traditional architects like Rem Koolhaas, Herzog and DeMeuron, Thomas Heatherwick. He’s very talented…. Especially his first projects. And also a pioneer in form-finding like Frei Otto or the Italian architect Sergio Musmeci, which is not world-wide famous. But he designed a bridge in Italy which to me is a game-changer in the history of architecture. So there are many references, many heroes….

M: Yeah! Especially from Italy. Italy has a lot of amazing architects and designers that emerge from there.

A: Yeah absolutely. For example, I learned a lot when I was studying from Renzo Piano. Which is not strictly a computational architect. But, the way he can put together different materials and his sensibilities in managing shapes is absolutely influencing me when I was an architecture student.

M: Yeah, it is amazing. Do you think then… That computation design assists or replaces the architect in the design?

A: No, of course it won’t replace. I actually invented the word AAD, which means Algorithms-Aided Design which to me is the current stage of digital tools for architecture. Basically design aided by algorithms. Now… Of course algorithms allow the designer to overcome the limitations that we have in traditional software, like CAD or our hands. So they can just allow us to reach a level of complexity that is beyond human ability. And probably I repeat myself, but as designers we basically use our hands for creating objects. Also, we are using the computer in 3D modeling software… We are still using our hands when we use the mouse.

So basically we have the same limitations of reality. You need to have a manual ability for creating objects of complexity. So with algorithms it is easy to translate your ideas into objects. Almost like a direct connection from our brains to the object while passing by the mouse. So it will assist the designer, computers will not steal our profession. I think the next step is artificial intelligence, AI. On Instagram and social networking we are seeing algorithms that create automatic layouts of apartments, museums and layouts. Of course this is a great help for architects but they will not destroy our profession. They will help us to create better projects because we don’t have to spend time trying to find different configurations. It won’t be a trial and error process, but it will be supported by a set of tools with machine learning.

M: Yeah that makes sense.

A: Yeah, I am positive and confident in technology. Also virtual reality. For example, nowadays it is used for exploring projects through architectural visualization. I actually designed a furniture piece while using virtual reality. A chair… And it actually helped me explore new ways of sculpting e digital matter. We just need to be educated in this kind of new machine and human interaction. Because we are basically talking about interaction between the human being and the computer. Of course in virtual reality it will be crucial. Also advanced fabrications methodologies will be important. Everyone talks about 3D Printing…. For example, I like to call it the Amazon Prime logic. I mean… The new generation, the so-called millenials are used to order something and have it immediately. “I want something, I want it right now.” So 3D Printing is something that meets these social postures, this social attitude. I think today everything overlaps, social networks and new possibilities of buying studd.

Architecture and design are not separated from the new social postures so it is important to analyze all these new possibilities in a holistic way, not just by separating from outside.

M: Okay, I have a question that I have thought about lately. Let’s say we have “traditional architecture” and on the other side, we have computational design. Do you think that in the future there’s still going to be those two separate traditional and computational or will computational be the leading in architecture design?

A: I actually have a third way… I always say that probably computational design’s main goal is to disappear. Because it will become invisible. In other words, in the past, in the last decade, we saw the cosmetic effect of computational design. If you think about Zaha Hadid buildings…. Like other references… And of course, when you have something new; a new methodology, a new powerful tool you always want to express the aesthetic of this new potential. And I think the next step will be to create geometries, both in product and architecture scale, while informing the design through digital tools. It won’t be necessarily something super complex in terms of change. I always believe that computational design should solve a complexity, not just represent the complexity. So we are probably moving to this mature stage, where computational design will solve complexities.

The output will be simple but a kind of new simplicity. I always think of Apple products, they are super complex inside but super simple outside. If you think about the iPhone, it’s a super simple surface. Black surface, you touch it, and you get a word inside. So you need to hide the complexity today. And we are probably going into these new aesthetics in computational design where the complexity will be hidden, not in the surface. So basically in order to answer your question, I hope that in the near future we will have something that is not just traditional against architecture, but a new species. A new species of design with super complex geometries with a more traditional surface in a way.

M: Okay, I see your point. Do you think then, that there is a need for computational design? Because there was someone that asked a question that said “Computational architecture is not very popular in India. Do you think there is a need for it?”

Or… Well… Better said… What is your design philosophy on computational design and why do you think there is a need to practice computational design?

A: Well, I think it is a methodology. It is not connected to style, country, culture…. Also in a way, an object, or whatever… So there is a need. And if you want to overcome the limitations of traditional design, the traditional way of thinking… You need to embrace this kind of methodology.

You asked if you have a kind of design philosophy. And I actually don’t like in general architectural manifestos. We don’t need design manifestos at the moment. And I am currently working as a design consultant for companies. For many companies in product design, architecture, automotive… And I think it’s very interesting, and I will probably become a bit unpopular, but today product design is in a way… Has a larger impact than architecture. Why would computational design be a need?

Because I think that objects have a greater impact in our lives and should be improved in many ways, especially because we need to solve complexities. When I say object, I mean a chair, a car, or many other things we have today. So in order to solve the complexity of contemporary design, we need to solve many issues that are not only traditional ones. Today for example, we have problems like privacy, data protection… We have a lot of tools that communicate with the outside. So it is very important to understand that when we are creating something today which is connected to the internet, we also need to solve issues regarding privacy and many other topics that are not strictly design issues or problems. It is all something new. So if you want to manage this kind of complexity, you cannot do it with traditional tools. So is it a need? Yes, I think so. Mostly if you open your eyes and boundaries, and if you don’t think about architecture as just putting shapes together or solving regular problems… As designers we need to face a new kind of complexity and only computational tools can face these problems.

M: That’s a very beautiful way to look at architecture. It has been a recurring theme in the episodes, in the Podcast in general, that architecture is not only buildings, it is more. Like solving problems in our everyday lives.

A: Which is changing a lot. Because we have a new kind of freedom today. We have the freedom of moving from one country to another in just one moment. We have local slides, like Amazon Prime. If you want something you can get it right now. We have the possibility of meeting people in super fast ways. These things affect reality. It affects buildings, our spaces… And today, our objects are becoming more and more relevant than architecture itself. It doesn’t mean that…. I’m not saying that we should not take care of architecture. But we just need to have a new vision. We need to understand that things are changing and we need to know that architecture is a part of a system. Architecture is not only real estate, not only selling apartments. But we need to reconfigure our spaces through this type of lifestyle.

I’m actually studying the new millennial philosophy. I was reading something that millennials are not interested in buying a house, they’re more interested in sharing things. They’re not interested in cars for example. I come from a generation whose many goals were buying a house and a beautiful car, that’s all. And you’re done. So everything is changing and architecture is just a part of this system. We cannot design architecture like Le Corbusier did 100 years ago. We need a more comprehensive and holistic vision.

**ILABO – ROSS LOVEGROVE for UNITED NUDE**

M: Yeah, I definitely agree. One of the last questions I have for you today is what is your process of design? How do you go from idea, to concept, to reality, let’s call it. Do you do everything in the computer or do you have other methods?

A: Well… We need to distinguish between a project that has a client and one that does not. If it is something artistic, or an expression of an idea, I usually start with a sketch. Because I still believe that the connection we have with a piece of paper is still a very powerful way to express ourselves and fix our ideas. That’s the very first stage. Sometimes the sketch is not only a way of representing the reality, sometimes I sketch the relationship I want to find in my object. It is often times abstract drawings. Then, I switch to computational tools…. Everybody knows that Grasshopper is my second home… Well, actually my first, I live inside the software (starts laughing). And I feel very familiar and comfortable inside that tool in order to create everything. Then I always skip the traditional part of creating drawings. I don’t create drawings anymore. So I switch from the algorithm into physical object according to digital fabrication. CNC Milling machines, Laser Cuts or 3D printing. I switch back to back from the idea to the final product.

And this is very interesting because today you can liquify reality into date, into numbers. If you have something created in the computer, you can create data into numbers. You can transfer, communicate them to manufacturers… Numbers are fast and very fluid. In this moment we are communicating because there is a tool that is converting our voices into number. They’re flowing through the air, and that’s all. I like this kind of vision, that everything is converted into data.

If I work for a client for example… The first step depends on the project. But in general, you have to organize tons of meetings in order to set the starting point. You move further in the algorithm and you need to double check with the client. It is a more traditional way because you need to speak to people that have no experience with the algorithms. But basically, I don’t skip the sketching part. I just skip the traditional drawings, because they are old and they’re a way of representing reality through abstractions such as plans, sections, elevations… Today we have a better way of communicating.

M: Yeah… Have you run into any obstacles when you’re switching from the computer to fabrication?

A: Yes, because I think sometimes designers are very forgiving. Sometimes they create beautiful renderings and objects, and when they switch to reality they say “Ok, it is good enough.” But for me it is not good enough, I always say that the final object should be better than the rendering. If you want to be able to pull off that type of perfection, you struggle a lot. Because you need to understand how the material will deform. For example, you can create a super beautiful shape with bent wood, and you don’t have gravity in your software, but reality works in a different way. And when you finally create your object, deformation will change the object. Sometimes you will see horrible gaps or twisting which ends up being a bad copy of the rendering. So if you want to create something super perfect, you need to have the experience we were talking about in the beginning. You need to have the experience in traditional architecture and how to put one brick on top of the other. How to put things together and how gravity will affect a design.

If you have a practical experience, you can predict the behavior when you’re creating your algorithm or design in the computer.

M: Yeah, and I’m guessing that the whole process goes from computer to fabrication, change something in the computer, fabrication again, go back to computer and fabrication again. Almost like a feedback loop.

A: Yeah exactly. Digital tools don’t give you perfection in the real world, it is not a direct connection. You need to master fabrication before you master digital tools.

NU:S Parametric Installation at Cloister of Bramante_Rome

M: Okay, the last question… What is something that you would like to tell a student… A piece of advice, something you wish you knew when you were studying architecture, anything at all…

A: Well, I think that they should create a type of vocabulary. Every designer and architect is unique and different from the others. I think there is space for everyone. The first thing I want to communicate is to forget about competition with other people, other architects… I think that competition is something that can ruin your professional and personal life. You need to switch from competition to something more collaborative and creative. So the first thing to do is creating your own vocabulary. Which is basically made of design references, your heroes, your obsessions. Apart from this vocabulary of course create coding, such as Python, Grasshopper… Today it is crucial to have some scripting knowledge. Then, you need to have some skills in geometry and understand how to do a mathematical representation of reality. Also be interested in what is happening right now… How social media is changing everything. The new online methodology, we have webinars, we have courses.

And once again, design is not disconnected from our smartphones today. We need to create an architecture with open eyes and understand what the new generation really needs. Not only what professors and universities told us in the past. So I come from the previous, previous generation in the past. I graduated in 2004, and started school in 98’ so I saw the whole transition. I started without the internet, without any access to the information the current generation has right now. And sometimes students ask me “How can I study all this computational stuff?” And I always say “You don’t have any excuse because you have the internet today.” When I was studying I used to only have one book on my shelf. That’s why you cannot study everything, be an expert in VR, AR, computational design… You need to find your voice and choose what is the best thing for you.

M: Yeah, that is an amazing thought. Because I have seen how you’re saying… Social media today is taking over people’s lives. I see a lot of competition only because social media is always there. And you get to see who is doing what, what everyone is working on…

A: Yeah, and social media is making us live according to likes. We need to stop for one second and understand if competition is something healthy or not. I don’t think so. We should be more creative and less competitive. It is not about winning something. So, I think this is the main advice I want to give to students. More creative and less competitive.

M: Thank you! It was such an interesting conversation. Thank you for sharing everything that you know, I really, really appreciate it.

A: Thank you for this opportunity. It was really, really interesting from my side as well. It was a pleasure.